The Ideological Dance
October 15, 2004
|
Posted by Aubrey Turner
I went off on somebody yesterday in the comments to this post. I don’t usually do that. People who have read this site for a while know I’m usually pretty mellow. But there’s one area that pushes my buttons and I’m going to have to learn to calm down.
Why is it that some people feel the need to attack other RKBA supporters if they aren’t Republicans and/or they don’t care for George W. Bush? My post was about how I don’t think Bush is a really good friend to RKBA and I was trying to imply that I’d need a clothespin to hold my nose as I voted for him, given that I didn’t see any other choice. (On a tangent, a lot of people harp on the Second Amendment, but I think that too easily lets people forget that RKBA is a human right and it would exist regardless of the 2nd.)
As I mentioned in the comments, I’m neither a conservative nor a liberal (at least in the current usage of the term). I’ve tried on a number of parties and ideologies over time. When I was in college, I was a Democrat as I didn’t know any other position. That’s just how I was raised. My father was quite a bit older than my mother and he had survived the Great Depression as a teenager (he was 18 in November, 1929). As far as he was concerned, Democrats could do no wrong and FDR was a god among men. As I got out into the “real world” I started noticing how things weren’t as simple as the Democrats made things out to be. Idealism is nice, but it tarnishes a bit when it meets reality. After the 1994 crime bill and assault weapons ban passed, I really started questioning things, as RKBA was an area I never compromised, despite my Democratic leanings. That got me started moving towards the Republicans to the point where I actually considered myself a Republican around the time of the 1996 elections.
However, my brief foray into the Republican party was not to last. Their social conservatism was simply unacceptable to me. Having a number of gay and lesbian friends, I couldn’t accept their views on homosexuality. Further, even as a Democrat, I had a strong respect for individual rights and the Constitution, so I never could see a justification for continuing the war on (some) drugs, or the war on porn, or the war on people’s right to die, or anything else where I didn’t see anyone else being harmed. I started exploring other ideological alternatives, finally coming to rest in the Libertarian party by the 2000 elections. I even toyed with hard-core anarcho-capitalism for a while, but ultimately gave it up as unworkable.
So, like everyone else I suppose, 9/11/2001 changed things for me. When Harry Browne started sending out essays on how it was America’s fault that we were attacked, I found that my core values couldn’t accept that. Even back when I was a Democrat, I was for a strong national defense (I suppose that was the Southern Democrat upbringing, which is probably why Zell Miller’s speech at the Republican National Convention resonated with me a bit). So I found myself in agreement with a Republican president when he went into Afganistan to root out Al Queda (and the Taliban, which supported them). I reluctantly agreed with his decision to go into Iraq. Despite the absence of WMD, I’ve come to fully support him on that as we’ve learned more about how things were in Iraq under Saddam Hussein.
I used to say I was a single-issue voter, and that issue was RKBA. If RKBA was the only issue, I wouldn’t vote for Bush. However, I understand that our country’s security takes precedence over all the other things I hate about Bush’s policies. I just hate having to be forced to make that choice, and I’m going to complain about it from time to time.
I’m not going to enthusiastically support George W. Bush. I’m not going to join the RNC. I’m not going to ask “How high?” when the NRA says to jump. If that somehow makes me a traitor to RKBA, then so be it. However, anyone who really knows my position on RKBA and continues to think that is deluded.
I suppose the question for Republican NRA members to ask themselves is whether they want as many allies as they can get in the fight for RKBA or do they want ideological purity? If they want allies, they will have to accept that some of us aren’t conservatives and don’t belong to the RNC. Otherwise, they can continue to attack other RKBA supporters, thereby alienating potential allies. It’s their choice.
Update: In an interesting display of synchronicity, Stephen Green expresses a lot of the same ideas, although he does so more eloquently than I did.
Categories: Politics
I thought I smelled an apology in there somewhere but it turned out to be mild self-rightousness. However its good that your addressing that anger management issue, was worried you might have a stroke or something after that little “comment”.
Anyway I’m not pasting judgement on you, but you can’t exactly past judgement on others (as you did me and the NRA) for not seeing things as you do. Maybe your not a single issue voter but you’ve made it pretty clear RKBA is by far the primary issue (and possible the only non-negotiable). For some its the War on Terror and ensuring we have a homeland safe enough to enjoy those rights. I love my RKBA (and my Mak90) but its not going to help if a 777 crashes into my workplace.
Maybe Bush isn’t being the shining example of RKBA but what do you think Gore would have done? What do you think Kerry will do? Would you vote for him knowing what you know if he baited you with promises of defending the 2nd? Sorry I won’t betray those who died in WTC for standard cap mags or bayonet lugs.
Even Reagan had his bad points but few doubt he was a Godsend after Carter’s disaster. It not about the “anybody but Kerry” line but about who do you think our founding fathers would choose?
“That he would support such a thing tells me that he’s no real friend to gun owners,.. So, I don’t think I’ll be enthusiastically running out to join the Bush-Cheney campaign.â€
“I suppose the question for Republican NRA members to ask themselves is whether they want as many allies as they can get in the fight for RKBA or do they want ideological purity?â€
“I suppose my question to you is do you want as many allies in the RKBA fight as you can get, or do you want ideological purity? If you want allies, then you’ll come to accept that some of us have different political opinions than you and will express those opinions from time to time.â€
From the above quotes you’ve made it obvious you think Bush is bad for the RKBA. That’s, fine, so tell us o’ enlightned one who is good for the RKBA? Or should we not vote at all and just complain about whoever wins because no one in office wanst to bear the social stigma of being pro-2nd. Unless Heston runs for office you’re going to have to deal with a closet 2nd support like Bush. ? I’m interetsed in hearing how your going to mount a successful pro-2nd defense without the RNC or the NRA
Forget it, theres no changing some peoples liberal “whats in it or me†mindset.
I don’t pretend to have all the answers on this. I can only speak for myself and answer to my own conscience. If we didn’t have to worry about Islamofascist pricks trying to kill us, I’d rather vote my conscience and lose than pick the lesser evil. I’ve done it before, and it doesn’t bother me as much as it appears to bother you. But then I’ve never thought that either the Republican or the Democratic party owns my vote, consequently I don’t buy into the false dichotomy that a vote for a third party is effectively a vote for whichever guy the mainstream party person I’m talking to opposes. My vote goes to the person I cast it for, period.
However, all things considered, in the current circumstances, I’m putting all that aside and holding my nose to vote Bush.
You’ve also misunderstood something about my position. You said:
I’m interetsed in hearing how your going to mount a successful pro-2nd defense without the RNC or the NRA
I don’t think I ever said quite what you’re saying. You’ve confused my distaste for elements of the RNC and the NRA with a complete disavowal of those organizations. I’m the first to admit that I don’t fit in the RNC, but I’m willing to work with individual Republican candidates, depending on how well their ideology meshes with my own. Likewise, I mentioned that I’m a life member of the NRA and I support them in many ways. In fact, I remain a member in hopes of changing it from within (although this seems to be a monumental task, given the currently entrenched power blocks).
However, one of the ways we can enhance RKBA is to get the NRA to work with any candidate, regardless of party, that supports RKBA fully. If we keep saying that a third party candidate can’t win, then we’ll never get a third party candidate elected. The NRA, if it put its clout behind a candidate at the state level, could help get those candidates in office, which can be used to bootstrap national office holders. But it won’t happen as long as the NRA marries itself to the RNC. And as long as the RNC knows that it’s got the lock on the NRA, it has no incentive to do anything but the bare minimum to keep the NRA in line.
Anyhow, I’ve come to the conclusion that we’re never going to reach an agreement on this. Perhaps I earned a bit of sarcasm on your part from my initial response, but your latest responses indicate we have little common ground to work with. Your latest choice of fake email address and insinuation that I’m a liberal tells me that we have nothing further to say to each other.
As a person that knows both of you, let say:
NRAlifer, you need to chill out, course you and me argued the same points.
Aubrey, you and I agree on more than you may know, but your outburst was a bit much, I would assume you have been getting some hell from some republicans to be so touchy, but it is your site so… welllets just say you are more than welcome to have a rant on your own site.
If I had my own site, I doubt many readers would stay with me for some time, as I tend to let my mouth or fingers fly off before engaging brain.
Glad that ytou explained your positions Aubrey, I think we are more alike then I used to think.
Aubrey, your ideological path is quite similar to mine. I felt like I was reading something of my own for a couple lines.
I see where you’re coming from on this. Wish I could elaborate but my comments have to be brief since I make them while I’m working. 8)
Thanks, guys.
I’d been meaning to write that post for a while, but never got around to it. It just took an overdose of caffeine and partisanship to finally get me to write it.